Any story on great female athletes wouldn't be complete without speaking to two of the greatest track-and-field stars: Jackie Joyner-Kersee and Marion Jones.
Many of her peers call Joyner-Kersee, 41, the best all-around female athlete ever. Before retiring in 2001, she earned six Olympic medals, including back-to-back gold medals in the seven-event heptathlon (she's held the world record since 1986). Jones, 27, is hailed as the fastest woman in the world. She captured five medals, including three gold, in a single Olympics, the 2000 Sydney Games.
Next year, Jones hopes to earn more in Athens -- this time starting to train within months of giving birth to her first child. Timothy Lois Montgomery was born June 28 to Jones and her partner and fellow Olympic runner Tim Montgomery, who holds the 100-meter world record. For inspiration, Jones points to one of her mentors, Olympian Evelyn Ashford, who went on to win gold after childbirth. "It is possible to be a mother and still be successful in your career," even at the highest level of athletics, Jones says.
Excerpts from our interview:
Q: When did you two first meet?
Jones: Well, I met Jackie way, way back when I was in youth track. I think I must have been about 9. My track club from California traveled up to Oregon or Washington and Jackie was one of the motivational speakers. Of course I was in awe, stood in line and got her autograph and so that was the first time, but of course she doesn't remember that. The first time we really, really met must have been in 1997, in Indianapolis where we competed against each other.
Joyner-Kersee: When Marion was in high school, she used to come up to UCLA and I [watched] her and I knew about her great talent and I just knew that one of these days she was going to be one of the greatest, you know.
Jones: You were out there a couple of times and saw me?
Joyner-Kersee: Yeah. Yeah. I would be in the stands. Just to see what the young kids were doing. When she started long jumping I was like, Oh!
Q: Is it a boom time for women in sports?
Jones: Girls are getting involved in sports at a much younger age. Because of that, you see them competing at a much, much higher level.
Joyner-Kersee: [And] women athletes now are being appreciated for their talent. From a marketing standpoint, you start to see women do [what they] want to do. That can inspire young girls to get involved in athletics.
Q: Is it only a matter of time before we see more co-gender competition?
Jones: I don't want to get into the whole idea of saying [that] to prove yourself in a sport you have to compete against a man and that will prove who is the better of the two athletes. People need to appreciate female athletes and male athletes because they're different games. Basketball is played differently [by men and women], and there are different things you can appreciate. By starting to talk about when we can see Lisa Leslie vs. Allen Iverson, it's not fair, because you're not going to be able to see the great talents of each.
Q: Marion, ever beaten Tim in a race?
Jones: No, not in competition. [Laughs.] Occasionally, we do starts together, but I can't think of a time I've actually beaten him. There have been a few times where it's been a little bit close.
Q: When you see other women at the top of their game, what do you think?
Joyner-Kersee: Watching Annika Sorenstam play in the PGA, I was just glad to see her compete. It's about being a competitor, and you never know what's going to happen.
Q: How significant was it for women? The media made a big deal about it.
Joyner-Kersee: The great thing I felt it did was that it made people who didn't watch golf, watch golf. Some people tuned in to see if she would make the cut.
Jones: Several of the players didn't want to play against her, and it just came down to the fact she beat plenty of guys on the PGA tour. There are so many men out there who just think, first, we can't compete at the same level. In many sports and in many instances we can, and she proved that. And second, they don't want to compete against us for a number of reasons -- one of them, perhaps, because they don't want to get labeled as the one who got beaten by a girl.
Q: What makes a great athlete, whether you're a man or woman?
Joyner-Kersee: You see some athletes have it together physically, but when you take it to the next level, all of a sudden, mentally, it's no longer there. To me, that is what separates great athletes from those who are good. That can be male or female.
Jones: When it's the Olympic stage or the world championship, you want to push yourself to the limit. You want to see how fast you can go, how fast you can jump, how far you can throw, etc.
Joyner-Kersee: That is so, so crucial.
Q: Some people think men's sports have suffered under Title IX, which requires a women's program if there's a federally funded men's program. Thoughts?
Jones: People lose sight of the real meaning of Title IX. We just want an equal opportunity. [Women's sports] need to be given the same attention by [schools]. That's what we're asking ... the opportunity to enjoy sports, to succeed at them, just as males have been getting for years.
Joyner-Kersee: It's unfortunate that the women get the backlash, getting ridiculed at school -- "Since you have to have this, we can't have that." My parents couldn't afford to send me to school. Because of Title IX it all started to make sense of why I was doing athletics. It's been a blessing.
Jones: The same goes for me. I came along at a time where there were "girl sports," and I knew I could have a future in this sport. My parents couldn't afford a top-notch school. I knew if I worked hard I could get a scholarship. If I wanted to go to school, this is what I was going to have to do, and I wanted to further my education.
Q: What other supports were in place to help you with your own athletic development? Jackie, weren't you just running in your own shoes for a while there?
Joyner-Kersee: Oh yes, you don't understand how important it is to have good quality shoes! (Laughs) In high school, I ran in the same pair of shoes for all three years. The support is so important, and you don't find that on all levels. We're losing a lot of great athletes to the predominant sports like football, basketball. Some of the women don't understand the importance of being fit. It's a tough situation when you have a crisis of obesity and kids don't want to be active. If P.E. is not offered, the chance to recognize athletic talent in young kids is going to be lost.
Jones: I think it's important for people to realize that everyone has to sacrifice, at some point, some a lot more than others. Realizing the people who made those sacrifices for you and not losing sight of the fact that a lot of people helped you get where you are today. They see me running on the track and all the fame, but they don't see all of the work and all of the hands that helped me become who I am today. The type of athlete I am, the type of person I am.
Q: In terms of women in sports, we found today is an all time low for female coaches. Fewer than half of the NCAA teams are coached by women compared to more than 75% in the early eighties after Title IX. How important is this?
Jones: I've been very fortunate to have a female coach at the University of North Carolina, my basketball team. I think it's important for there to be a female influence in young girls lives. Whether it's a coach, a mentor, an idol. Just somewhere along the way where they see success in a woman. If it's not the athlete, it's their mother. Whether their mother's a teacher, or stay-at-home mom. Just a female influence where they can say, "Oh this is what I might want to do in my life." It's unfortunate that we're seeing a decline with women in coaching positions, but as long as the female influences across the board aren't diminishing, I think we'll see a rebound.
Joyner-Kersee: Or we'll have to figure out a way to challenge young people to want to get into coaching. There have been a lot of successful women coaches, especially on the basketball, softball and track and field level. Just like there was a time when we weren't really appreciating the female athlete, we have to get to part two where we appreciate female coaches as well. My high school coach was a man, but my assistant coach was a female, and you need that balance. Not every athlete would want to coach and a lot of great athletes couldn't be a coach. There are some women athletes out there who might want to go into coaching. What path would I need to take to become a coach. I know it in athletics, but I don't know it in coaching.
Q: What do you see in the younger generation of female athletes and athletes in general that's good and not so good? What's needed in organized sports to continue to nurture athletes?
Joyner-Kersee: My take on the next generation is that a lot of them have to understand the need to be patient. I feel that's a downside. You have someone who's very talented and who wants to go to the next level right away instead of being patient and enjoying the success they have at a very young age. It will get to the point where they don't really enjoy what they do out there. A lot of what's going on in a young kid's mind is money. I want this contract, I want to get that. If they do what they're supposed to, all of it is going to come. They also have to understand you don't just do it for one year, you have to be consistent. That shows me you're a winner. Being very, very patient and learning what it means to sacrifice, I don't think is part of their vocabulary. It's either now or never, no in-between. When you're young, you're young for a reason, to grow, to mature. Once you get to that level, you'll appreciate the struggles you went through and you'll find a way to stay at the top for a very long time. That's what I truly liked about Marion. She had injuries, went through ups and downs. But once she got there, she knew, I'd been there and I know what it takes and she appreciated that.
Jones: We don't live in a perfect world and we have to deal with reality and reality is, there's a lot of money in sport across the board and it will only become more now. We have to find a balance. We have to continue to focus on the love of sport, the love of basketball, the love of track, the love of golf. At the same time, realizing there's a lot of money to be made and not every athlete is going to be out there for the love of sport. There are other motivations that drive a lot of athletes.
Q. Successful athletes have to deal with intense media scrutiny. How do you deal with it?
Joyner-Kersee: Whatever you do is going to always be out in the news.
Q. Is there a way to have your personal time?
Jones: There is, you just have to work at it more. It takes a little more effort. When I go on vacation I have to make 20 more phone calls then the average person to make sure I'm not going to be in a situation where I'm bombarded and that I'm at a place where there's not going to be that many people so I can really let my hair down and have a good time. You have to always be aware of your surroundings. Am I in a bad environment? Will I be in the paper the next day saying "Marion had 5 shots of vodka" when it was really Sprite? You really have to go the extra mile to protect yourself. I'm not saying you can't have a normal life, but it just takes a little more effort.
But you take the good with the bad. I always say if you want your name in the paper when [you] run an incredibly fast time or jump far, you have to take it when you don't jump far. You have to take them both.
Q: Marion, what has been the most difficult aspect of pregnancy as an athlete when the world is watching so closely?
Jones: Luckily I was blessed to be able to enjoy that moment and the media understood that I wanted to keep this event private. Just really keeping the whole experience really special and sacred.
Q: Marion, we have to ask if your son, given his parentage, has runner's legs?
Jones: It's funny because he's a small guy, when he was born he was 5 pounds 11 ounces, he's almost 7 pounds now. When he was born the one thing that stood out was he had these massive quads. He's really, really skinny with these long, long feet with body builder quadriceps.
Q: You're among the few athletes who have gone through pregnancy and rigorous competitive schedule both in a short period of time. That's something men obviously don't have to do.
Jones: When I first found out I was pregnant I did a lot of research on exercise and pregnancy. I found out that there has been so many Olympic athletes who have had babies and have gone on to win gold Medals. Evelyn Ashford, Valerie Brisco-Hooks, the list goes on and on. That encouraged me and even though I hadn't spoken to any of them, just knowing that they were able to come back and win an Olympic gold medal was motivation enough for me.
Q: How has pregnancy changed your training strategy, what did you do to compensate and what do you plan to do?
Jones: Throughout the pregnancy I was very cheerful, being very careful not to over do it. I'm a very competitive person, so the biggest challenge for me was to not lose sight of the fact that I'm pregnant and get in the competitive zone. I didn't really feel pregnant until I was about 7-and-a-half months, so I had to stop and remind myself that I was. There were times when I was on the treadmill and I would see some guy with it notched up to 9.0 and I could feel myself with the competitiveness wanting to zoom it up. And to answer your question, what I learned throughout all this is that I need to be a little bit more aware of my body and listen to it when I'm sweating, when I'm aching, where it hurts, this, that, and the other. I think that will help me now that I started back a little bit and in the next few months training again.
Q: Has it changed your view of women in sports?
Jones: I have so much more respect for female athletes who have gone through the process of giving birth, who are mothers and who juggle their careers and their lives with so much success coming out so many times over and over again. Not nearly enough attention is placed on the female athlete who's a mother. That in itself is an incredible story. Because, the industry and media are so dominated by men that story is not necessarily brought to the forefront.
Q: Marion, how important is it to medal in Athens?
Jones: Any medal is not what I'm looking for. I want to win races and jump far. The goal is to go there and win gold medals, which is plural, so I'll just leave it at that.
Q: Jackie, will you be at the 2004 Olympics?
Joyner-Kersee: Yes. I need to be there, the birthplace of the Olympics. So much history, and people are going to be making history. I just want to sit back and watch.
Q: Whom will you be watching?
Joyner-Kersee: I've got my eyes on Marion Jones.
-- Moderated by Michele Hatty
